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And it seems that much of the interesting eavesdropping here is passive. To deal with this the NSA would have to subvert the software or break the encryption in some other way. Can you please elaborate on this: Using such a cert for a man in the middle would run the risk of being noticed by highly savvy users who check the certificate fingerprints they receive against ones obtained through other channels, but I'm not sure if anybody does that….
I should have mentioned this in the first place. But I've updated the post to mention this. In 90's NSA made the mistake of trying to backdoor things openly — through mandating that in law. So they switched back to good old HUMINT, that was seemingly not very much respected by the techies, and it seems to work much better. And that's actually something that you would expect an electronic intelligence agency to do, because that's what they are paid for.
I'm pretty sure everyone — Russia, France, China — do it exactly the same way, with the difference that in countries like Russia or China it's much easier, as the security industry is saturated with people in uniforms.
Plus citizen control is much weaker, and there's virtually no whistleblowing. Generate a bit random number. Hash it to bits. Encrypt the time of day in milliseconds with a key known to you and exclusive-or it with the hash. It is not stated how it was derived. The standard curves of NIST do not specify constants but coefficients that define the curves — I assume. Some elliptic curve specialist should give us light on this matter. First, the Certificate Authority angle is silly. I would suggest removing it or at least rephrasing lest some readers conclude self-signed certs are more secure.
Second, I will ask the same question here as on Twitter: Why so much confidence in elliptic curve cryptography? Yes, finite fields have more structure… But that structure has been explored publicly for centuries.
Guess which key exchange algorithm the latest OpenSSL prefers by default? In light of recent events, I cant' help but feel with renewed emphasis something I've thought for a long time now: Its' time for a TLS 2.
TLS has grown into a beast of a standard; some of the core parts of the design are, in a modern light, at the least questionable. What we need is a simple, concise security layer, easily analyzed and easily audited. TLS is not that. We should take TLS1. You must be kidding…. Matt, I didn't mean CA impersonation attacks. Look at the diagram in the Guardian article. Our friends in the TLAs do indeed like to keep things passive. Man-in-the-middle attacks are easy to detect after the fact, making them risky on a large scale.
And they are totally unnecessary if you have effective passive attacks, which NSA does. If you think this is how they snoop on SSL, then you have too little imagination about their true capabilities, in my opinion. Here is the text of the podcast from TWiT: That sounds to me like either some mathematical breakthrough affecting only some keys, or an implementation error. Bull Run refers to this: Looking forward, is there a need for a mechanism that can harness true randomness not pseudo randomness to maintain security?
For example, ideas as presented in a recent book, Dynamic secrets in Communication Security Springer? The idea of the book is to extract randomness from the environment and use it to refresh keys so that a third party NSA cannot keep up without either a major expenditure of resources or a greater chance of being detected. The picture posted in the blog with yellow lines is very interesting. One of the last goals of NSA for this year is to: Are we to wait some journalists to praise questionable crypto products?
What are NSA's tools in this game? Great article…wish Professor Green was my lecturer at uni, or wrote all the books in the library. I'd have a PhD instead of a run-of-the-mill BEng. Oh for Pete's sake, you want to have an encrypted, secure discussion? Get off the grid. Go back to good old face-to-face communication, preferably in a quiet, out of the way place, maybe with coffees or teas or, better, ice cream. Substantially greater… and increasing monotonically over time.
The quantum folks mean one thing, information theorists another, statistical mechanists another, and so on. And, no, it doesn't at all seem probable in this one systems theorist's mind, fwiw that there's an eventual convergence — a Grand Unified Theory of the Random — lurking out there.
Cryptographers — such as our esteemed host here, Dr. That definition works just fine in this application — but it certainly doesn't generalize. Years ago, a professor of mine made this point by stating that a set of data are not random if there is an algorithm smaller than the data themselves that can produce those data. How do we know whether there's such an algorithm?
Well, if we can discover it — somehow — then we know it exists. If we don't discover it… perhaps it still exists. This is the quintessential incompleteness finding, or if you prefer a pure-form example of Turing's halting paradox. I could go on, but I'll spare readers with less desire to dive down this particular rabbit hole. It's perhaps sufficient to acknowledge that randomness is a scalar, not binary, variable actually not even that — more of a fuzzy matrix of systemic attributes, etc.
The trick is doing it without getting caught. Google embeds it's own public keys or there hashes in chrome, that's how they found the Iranian gmail mitm attack that used a cert from the comodo hack.
PPTP is worth mentioning — we've known mschapv2 was useless for a while, see cloudcrack. When a CA generates the key pairs for their clients before signing the public one, storing the private one and transmitting it to NSA would be possible, though.
But then the user should be aware of this. Except it doesn't because in later podcasts he corrects himself stating that the way he thought the exploit worked wasn't entirely correct and that you didn't need to pass an unexpected value to make it work.
Basically, everything he asserted in that podcast wasn't true. Other than the ones already detailed in the documents, the only one I can think of is to publicize fatal flaws in a cipher scheme or implementation, encouraging the use of ostensibly stronger alternatives with privately known weaknesses.
This would be consistent with some commentators' suspicions that Snowden's disclosures could be part of a limited hangout operation and this is all a bid to get us off of RSA for nefarious reasons , but the consistently strident tone of those trolls advancing that theory leads me to believe otherwise.
Great article, thank you very much. I was reading this sentence: I was disappointed instead to see that it was just a tweet from you saying pretty much the same thing! Allow me to suggest that is not, in fact, a good use of a link… perhaps you learned this little nugget in personal conversation with the author? If so, by all means, say so; but if not, perhaps you could link instead to another source that documents the claim. Schneier has been saying in the past few days he doesn't trust Elliptic Curves because they are based on constants of dubious origins..
Seriously… Tinfoil hat is off. Is quantum computing the development that has given them the ability to decrypt previously secure encryption on the fly? ITYM key theft of the server's private key alone would not work. However, poorly constructed client private keys are vulnerable to either theft via maliciously installed software, or possibly other mathemtatical means. A web browser does not check whether a site's certificate has changed, only that it is validly signed by a Certificate Authority.
If the NSA has control of one or more Certificate Authorities, which is extremely likely, then it can routinely perform MITM attacks on traffic between browsers and web sites — even ones whose true certificate is signed by a different Certificate Authority. To conduct the surveillance, the NSA is temporarily copying and then sifting through the contents of what is apparently most e-mails and other text-based communications that cross the border.
You're right — looks like an MITM attach is being described. Missed this the first read. Is this the blog that JHU wanted taken down? I would be highly curious to know who inside this educational institution would practice such a rank and base form of censorship. I don't see how that's possible, since commerce is one of the fundamental areas that are impacted by this news. I manage the capital markets practice at a mid-size hedge fund.
You better believe we're transitioning away from any closed-source U. The larger funds already do most everything in-house, but you'll see smaller and smaller funds choosing open-source and bespoke solutions going forward.
Now, all that tech business that has driven the economy the last 20 years is going to go elsewhere. The NSA is also saturated with people in uniform. The only difference is that they do not wear their uniform.
Such active attacks are more risky, however, since a colluding client and server can detect it. And what happens when there is ubiquitous surveillance along with sufficient computing power to automatically create computer-analyzable transcripts of the conversation?
Microsoft probably has the most 'splaining to do, although there is plenty to go around. We always knew the telco's are complicit.
Yes, the parameters in ECC are the coefficients of the elliptic curve. But since they are are hashed, there is a limit to what they can do. Green is a public figure, writing in his own name and teaching publicly at a non-secret university. Yeah, he certainly could stick it on a server buried within Tor hidden services, require folks to find him on bitmessage to gain the address, and confirm visitor authenticity using some clever implementation of blockchain validation or whatever. That sort of thing might impress a certain class observers, but it has nothing to do with the guts of genuine security debates.
A big part of the battle — for those who really do live and die based on security implementation decisions — lies in finding clarity as to what is sensitive and what is not. Anyone who is trying to keep everything private all the time is going to be spread thin relative to someone who chooses what matters and focuses her efforts primarily on those areas above all else.
There's very few academic practitioners in Dr. Green's category of competence who are willing to stand up in public and offer the kind of cogent, deeply-sourced, hands-on advice he's providing here on this blog. Undoubtedly, there's second-order costs he carries in sharing this kind of knowledge broadly on a public platform — costs which most folks would avoid simply by staying silent in the face of official intimidation.
Which is to say: I'd love to know but I doubt we ever will , how much irony was involved in picking those codenames. I'd love to see an organization like Google, for instance, stand up and tell the NSA to that if they want a fight, then, in the words of George Bush, bring it on. You have your hackers, we have ours.
May the best man win. Like Apple vs Samsung, it takes a group with the same financial resources, manpower, and talent to go head to head with an adversary like the NSA, and Google is probably the best candidate.
Sergy Brin and Larry Page are libertarians at heart, and you can bet they have no love of the NSA and the games they're playing.
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